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Dane County judge hears arguments over state's abortion ban

Attorney General Josh Kaul filed lawsuit to appeal state's 1849 law

Dane County judge hears arguments over state's abortion ban

Attorney General Josh Kaul filed lawsuit to appeal state's 1849 law

CENTER STAGE IN THE STATE CAPITOL. A DANE COUNTY JUDGE HEARD 90 MINUTES OF ARGUMENTS TODAY OVER THE STATE’S 1849 LAW. ATTORNEY GENERAL JOSH KAUL FILED A LAWSUIT TO REPEAL IT FOLLOWING THE US SUPREME COURT’S DECISION TO OVERTURN ROE VERSUS WADE. LAST JUNE. NOW, HE ARGUES, WISCONSIN’S LAWS PASSED AFTER THE 1849 LAW ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER. KAUL NAMED THREE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS AS DEFENDANTS TO PROHIBIT THEM FROM ENFORCING THE ABORTION BAN. SHEBOYGAN COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY JOEL URBANSKI, A REPUBLICAN, FILED A MOTION TO DISMISS THE CASE. AND IT MAY BE THAT THE CITIZENS OF THE STATE OF WISCONSIN WOULD BE BETTER SERVED BY A DIFFERENT STATUTE. BUT THAT IS NOT A DECISION FOR THIS COURT OR THESE PARTIES TO MAKE. IT’S A DECISION FOR OUR POLICYMAKERS, PHYSICIANS IN WISCONSIN LOOK AT WISCONSIN LAW AND ONE WHISTLE, ONE WISCONSIN LAW FROM THE MID 1800S WOULD SAY ILLEGAL AND OTHER WISCONSIN LAW TO THAT EXACT SAME FACTUAL CIRCUMSTANCE SAYS LEGAL. THAT CANNOT BE. NOW, THE JUDGE WILL ISSUE A RULING OVER THE MOTION AT A LATER, LATER DATE. NO MATTER HOW SHE RULES THE CASE WILL LIKELY END UP BEFORE THE STATE SUPREME COURT. 12 NEWS CYREIA SANDLIN REPORTS FROM MADISON. THE BATTLE OVER ABORTION RIGHTS HEATING UP IN THE STATE CAPITOL TODAY. THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF WISCONSIN RIGHT TO LIFE HOPING THE JUDGE WILL ALLOW THE 1849 ABORTION BAN TO STICK. TELL US ABOUT THIS HEARING AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR YOUR ORGANIZATION. SURE. I THINK THE REASON WHY TODAY IS IMPORTANT IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS CASE IS DISMISSED. IT’S NOT WHETHER OR NOT WE KNOW WHAT’S ENFORCEABLE. SO OUR GOAL IS TO ENSURE THAT THE LAW THAT WE WORK SO HARD TO KEEP ON THE BOOKS ALL THESE YEARS REMAINS ENFORCEABLE. ABORTION RIGHTS ADVOCATES HOPING FOR THE EXACT OPPOSITE, SAYING THE 1849 BAN DIRECTLY CONFLICTS WITH CURRENT STATE LAWS. AFTER THE HEARING, ATTORNEY GENERAL JOSH CALL SAYING IN A PRESS CONFERENCE HE REALIZES THIS IS JUST THE FIRST STEP IN THE FIGHT. WHAT IS TODAY MEAN FOR ABORTION RIGHTS IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN? WELL, THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT STEP FORWARD IN THE LEGAL PROCESS. KAUL SAYS. WISCONSINITES DESERVE CLARITY ON WHAT IS LEGAL. THERE’S A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT THE STATE OF THE LAW IS, GIVEN THAT THERE’S THIS CONFLICT. THAT’S EXACTLY WHY WE ARE IN COURT. PRO-LIFE ADVOCATES HOPE THE JUDGE’S EVENTUAL RULING WILL REINFORCE A TOTAL BAN OF ABORTION IN WISCONSIN. WE AT PRO-LIFE WISCONSIN ARE FIGHTING TO PRESERVE, TO MAINTAIN AND TO STRENGTHEN AND CLARIFY OUR CURRENT ABORTION BAN. WHAT WOULD YOU PERHAPS BE OPEN TO SEEING ANY CHANGES WITH THE LAW? WELL, I THINK THERE’S A REALLY GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO IMPROVE THE LAW IN BOTH SIDES. REALIZE THIS FIGHT IS FAR FROM OVER AND WE’RE A STEP CLOSER NOW TO RESOLUTION AND CLARITY IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, IN MADISON, CYREIA SANDLIN WILSON, 12 NEWS. AND THERE IS N
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Dane County judge hears arguments over state's abortion ban

Attorney General Josh Kaul filed lawsuit to appeal state's 1849 law

Attorneys for a Republican prosecutor urged a judge Thursday to toss out a lawsuit seeking to repeal Wisconsin's 174-year-old abortion ban, arguing that a newer state law permitting pre-viability abortions complements the ban rather than supersedes it, as Democrats maintain.Wisconsin lawmakers passed a law in 1849 that outlaws abortion except to save the mother's life. The U.S. Supreme Court's landmark Roe v. Wade decision in 1973 that legalized abortion statewide effectively voided the ban. It was held in abeyance for nearly five decades until the high court struck down Roe v. Wade last year. The decision reactivated the ban.State Attorney General Josh Kaul, a Democrat, filed the lawsuit in Dane County circuit court last June seeking to repeal the ban. Kaul argues that the 1849 law is so old it was essentially adopted without the people's consent; or alternately, that more permissive restrictions on abortion enacted in Wisconsin in 1985 to comply with Roe v. Wade supersede the older statute. The 1985 legislation permits terminating pregnancies up until a fetus can survive outside the womb.Kaul has named three district attorneys in counties that were home to abortion clinics as defendants, including Sheboygan County's Republican prosecutor, Joel Urmanski. He filed a motion to dismiss the case in December."We are deeply committed to working to restore access to safe and legal abortion in Wisconsin. We filed suit close to a year ago arguing the 1849 ban is unenforceable in the state of Wisconsin," Kaul said in a news conference after the hearing Thursday."This is a significant step forward in the legal process," he also said.Anto-abortion advocates gathered at the Dane County Courthouse on Thursday, hopeful to see the law upheld."Our goal is to ensure the law we work so hard to keep on these books all these years remains enforceable," said Heather Weininger, executive director of Wisconsin Right to Life. Dane County Circuit Judge Diane Schlipper listened to more than 90 minutes of oral arguments on the motion Thursday. She didn't issue a decision from the bench, and it's unclear when she might release a ruling. Urmanski's lead attorney, Matthew Thome, first argued that Kaul lacks the legal standing to challenge the ban because it doesn't affect his ability to perform his duties as attorney general.Kaul's argument that the ban is so old it's unenforceable is a “stretch," Thome added. Laws don't vanish from the books, and the only reason the ban wasn't enforced was that the original 1973 Roe v. Wade decision blocked it, he said.He also maintained that legislators never repealed the ban. Modern-day laws restricting abortion, including the 1985 post-viability restriction, co-exist with the ban in “harmony," he said. The new laws give county prosecutors charging options, he said.Assistant Attorney General Hannah Jurss maintained that the ban clearly conflicts with modern-day laws that permit abortion in some circumstances, creating confusion that only a judge can clarify. Kaul has legal standing because he's Wisconsin's top law enforcement official, and he needs to know what laws apply in the state, she said.The modern laws don't mean anything if the ban allows abortion only to save the mother's life, she added. “It can't be that the law says something is illegal and legal at the same time,” Jurss said.She acknowledged that the argument that the ban is too old to be enforced has little precedent in Wisconsin. But she said the U.S. Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade was unprecedented as well.Schlipper offered a few hints on which way she is leaning. She did take Thome to task over his contention that prosecutors can pick and choose which abortion laws to enforce.“So, we’re back to doctors should choose their counties carefully?” the judge said. “People have a right to know which law applies where.”She also questioned Jurss on whether the doctrine of implied repeal applies in the case. The doctrine is a legal concept that states' newer laws supersede old ones. Jurss responded that modern abortion laws address the same issue as the ban, so the doctrine applies. Thome urged the judge to “get back to principles,” pointing out again that the Legislature has chosen not to repeal the ban and Schlipper shouldn't substitute her judgment for that of policymakers.The case carries so much weight that no matter what happens in Schlipper's courtroom or at the appellate level, it will almost certainly end up at the state Supreme Court. That plays to Kaul’s advantage because liberal-leaning justices will hold a 4-3 majority on the court after Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Janet Protasiewicz is sworn in this August. Protasiewicz repeatedly signaled during her campaign that she supports abortion rights, an unprecedented approach in a judicial race.

Attorneys for a Republican prosecutor urged a judge Thursday to toss out a lawsuit seeking to repeal Wisconsin's 174-year-old abortion ban, arguing that a newer state law permitting pre-viability abortions complements the ban rather than supersedes it, as Democrats maintain.

Wisconsin lawmakers passed a law in 1849 that outlaws abortion except to save the mother's life. The U.S. Supreme Court's landmark Roe v. Wade decision in 1973 that legalized abortion statewide effectively voided the ban. It was held in abeyance for nearly five decades until the high court struck down Roe v. Wade last year. The decision reactivated the ban.

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State Attorney General Josh Kaul, a Democrat, filed the lawsuit in Dane County circuit court last June seeking to repeal the ban. Kaul argues that the 1849 law is so old it was essentially adopted without the people's consent; or alternately, that more permissive restrictions on abortion enacted in Wisconsin in 1985 to comply with Roe v. Wade supersede the older statute. The 1985 legislation permits terminating pregnancies up until a fetus can survive outside the womb.

Kaul has named three district attorneys in counties that were home to abortion clinics as defendants, including Sheboygan County's Republican prosecutor, Joel Urmanski. He filed a motion to dismiss the case in December.

"We are deeply committed to working to restore access to safe and legal abortion in Wisconsin. We filed suit close to a year ago arguing the 1849 ban is unenforceable in the state of Wisconsin," Kaul said in a news conference after the hearing Thursday.

"This is a significant step forward in the legal process," he also said.

Anto-abortion advocates gathered at the Dane County Courthouse on Thursday, hopeful to see the law upheld.

"Our goal is to ensure the law we work so hard to keep on these books all these years remains enforceable," said Heather Weininger, executive director of Wisconsin Right to Life.

Dane County Circuit Judge Diane Schlipper listened to more than 90 minutes of oral arguments on the motion Thursday. She didn't issue a decision from the bench, and it's unclear when she might release a ruling.

Urmanski's lead attorney, Matthew Thome, first argued that Kaul lacks the legal standing to challenge the ban because it doesn't affect his ability to perform his duties as attorney general.

Kaul's argument that the ban is so old it's unenforceable is a “stretch," Thome added. Laws don't vanish from the books, and the only reason the ban wasn't enforced was that the original 1973 Roe v. Wade decision blocked it, he said.

He also maintained that legislators never repealed the ban. Modern-day laws restricting abortion, including the 1985 post-viability restriction, co-exist with the ban in “harmony," he said. The new laws give county prosecutors charging options, he said.

Assistant Attorney General Hannah Jurss maintained that the ban clearly conflicts with modern-day laws that permit abortion in some circumstances, creating confusion that only a judge can clarify. Kaul has legal standing because he's Wisconsin's top law enforcement official, and he needs to know what laws apply in the state, she said.

The modern laws don't mean anything if the ban allows abortion only to save the mother's life, she added.

“It can't be that the law says something is illegal and legal at the same time,” Jurss said.

She acknowledged that the argument that the ban is too old to be enforced has little precedent in Wisconsin. But she said the U.S. Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade was unprecedented as well.

Schlipper offered a few hints on which way she is leaning. She did take Thome to task over his contention that prosecutors can pick and choose which abortion laws to enforce.

“So, we’re back to doctors should choose their counties carefully?” the judge said. “People have a right to know which law applies where.”

She also questioned Jurss on whether the doctrine of implied repeal applies in the case. The doctrine is a legal concept that states' newer laws supersede old ones.

Jurss responded that modern abortion laws address the same issue as the ban, so the doctrine applies. Thome urged the judge to “get back to principles,” pointing out again that the Legislature has chosen not to repeal the ban and Schlipper shouldn't substitute her judgment for that of policymakers.

The case carries so much weight that no matter what happens in Schlipper's courtroom or at the appellate level, it will almost certainly end up at the state Supreme Court.

That plays to Kaul’s advantage because liberal-leaning justices will hold a 4-3 majority on the court after Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Janet Protasiewicz is sworn in this August. Protasiewicz repeatedly signaled during her campaign that she supports abortion rights, an unprecedented approach in a judicial race.